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Religious Life

Interview with Fr Christopher La Roca, OCD

Interview with Fr. Christopher La Rocca, OCD
http://aquerofoundation.com/id7.html
February 27, 2008

Q1: If could speak a little about where you’re from and anything
else that might be helpful…

"I was born in San Francisco, as were my parents and grandparents, so I am the third generation. I am one of six children – all of which attended Catholic schools from the first grade through high school and university. My father worked with the Jesuits, founded by St. Ignatius, for 30 years so we kind of grew up with the Jesuits. I thought about being a teacher, a high school teacher, following in my father’s footsteps. But before we get to that I would like to say that I think Catholic education is excellent.

It’s not as inexpensive as it once was, but I am firm believer in Catholic education. So, I had 20 years of Catholic schooling and wanted to move into Catholic education. And I actually did that. I was teaching at a Catholic high school for a while and during that time I met Theresa of Calcutta, and I can use that as, I guess, like a 'signpost'. It’s not everyday that you meet a living saint! I actually met with her a couple of times and, on one occasion, just the two of us sat down and had a little chat about my vocation."

"This was, of course, something unexpected and was a big factor [in my vocational discernment]. So, we sat down and I had this overwhelming sensation of being unworthy. She x-rayed my soul and said to me at that moment, 'No one is worthy.' And I said to myself,'Wow!' She just looked right into me. ‘No one is worthy.’ Then she said, 'But, whatever Jesus is asking you to do say ‘Yes.’ Say, ‘Yes’ to Jesus.'' At the end of it all she said, 'I think you should go to the Bronx. My Fathers are just getting started and I think you should go to the Bronx and spend time with my Fathers.' I said I would. Now, trying to be a man of my word, I told Mother Theresa I would go to the Bronx, so, eventually I arranged to go to the Bronx. I had absolutely no idea this was a discernment, 'Come and See' thing, 'Explore your Vocation!' I was definitely not that far along in my vocation journey! All I knew is that I told Mother Theresa that I would go to the Bronx, and I did.”

"When I got there, I found out that this was all about discerning your vocation, and I was quite panicked. When the priest said to me, towards the end, 'Well we’d like for you to get back in touch with us in about a month and tell us what you’re thinking.' I said, 'Father, listen, there’s absolutely no way that I could make a decision like this in a month. I mean this is so new to me. I came because I met Mother Theresa.' I went back home and my mind was kind of spinning a bit. My father kept saying, 'Go see Father Murphy. Go see Father Murphy….' To appease him, finally, after a lot of reluctance, I saw Father Murphy. He, first of all, said something very reassuring to me. He said, 'You are in no position to make any sort of life changing decision.' And I thought, 'Oh, what a relief. Thank God.'

He continued, 'But, I will offer you my services as Spiritual Director.' He promised me clarity. We would meet once a week and clarity would come. I told him, 'Father, I doubt that clarity will come. I don’t have that kind of faith. I don’t have the faith to lay down my life on a hunch.' He said, 'Well, believe in God and we’ll see what happens.' In the midst of this, miracle of miracles, it became absolutely clear to me, through the intercession of St. Therese, that I was to be a Carmelite priest. I’ll leave it at that. Within the next two months I applied for the Carmelites, entered the Carmelites, and now I’m a Carmelite priest. So, from wanting to be a teacher, teaching high school, I found that as a priest you really have an opportunity to teach the best subject, which is to teach the truth of Christ.”

Q2: What is a “vocation” and how would you define
a vocation?


“The root of the word vocation is ‘vocare’ meaning to call. So, literally, it is a ‘calling’. Of course, we have been called into being, called into existence, everyone has a vocation. St. Therese became a Doctor of the Church because of her precise and clear definition of a vocation when she said, ‘My vocation is Love. In the heart of the church I will be love.’ That is the vocation of every human being; created by the loving God, to know God, love God, serve Love, serve God. Ultimately, our vocation is to love. How? As husband, as wife, parent, teacher, doctor, nurse, priest, religious…Yes, everyone has a vocation, everyone has a calling and ultimately it is how we will best love God and love our neighbor. That’s how we can discern what our vocation is, ‘How am I being called to love God and my neighbor? As mother, father, priest, religious, doctor, lawyer, butcher, baker, candlestick maker…?’ So, yes, everyone has a vocation and ultimately a vocation to be holy; the universal call to holiness and the call to love.”

“It’s a vocation to love. God’s will is perfect love. We are all called to share in that perfection of charity and to be holy. I will also note that in doing God’s will, in living out a vocation, will come great joy and satisfaction, because we will be becoming the persons that we were meant to be. We were created for a certain mission in life; it’s a bit mysterious trying to figure out exactly what it is that we’re called to do, but that’s also a journey of faith, an adventure, something very worthwhile.”


Q3: You just touched on this a little, speaking about that fulfillment, that joy, that comes from following your vocation… Sometimes we don’t even think about discerning our vocation. Why would you say someone should take the time to discern, though?

“Children often hear, ‘What do you want to be when you grow up?’ Some people decide very, very early, what they want to be. You know, ‘I want to be fireman!’ or ‘I want to be a cowboy!’ or ‘I want to be a nurse!’ or ‘I want to be a doctor!’ Or a teacher, a sister, priest, or whatever it is. That does happen, however, most of the time. It seems to me that it takes awhile.

People start thinking about it when they’re in high school, and, maybe when they’re graduating, and maybe getting into college they start to think about declaring a major. So, it’s different. Everybody’s awareness of what they are called to comes at a different time. But I think it is important that people spend time thinking and praying about what they’re called do, what talents they have, etc. Ultimately, a confirmation of the vocation will be joy and happiness. It will be something that brings you peace, joy and happiness, fulfillment, and a way of using your talents and becoming your true self. Serving and loving God, serving and loving your neighbor. I think everybody wants to be happy; everybody wants to be fulfilled as a person. So, I think it’s just a matter of praying, being open and listening to that still, small voice within, seeing where your talents lie, and what your desires are.”

Q4: There are many different ways people recommend for discerning a vocation, but what have you found to be helpful?

“If you’re speaking of the vocation to the religious life or the priesthood, then the indispensable
element is prayer, deep prayer. The frequenting of the sacraments, daily mass would be a great help, praying over the word of God, talking to people, maybe finding a spiritual director, listening to others. People might say, ‘You would make a good priest or a brother. Have you thought about doing…?’ So, keep your ears open. But, ultimately I think it’s about listening to the voice of God and prayer allows us to go into that silence and try to discover God’s will for us. It happens in different ways, unique ways for every person; it’s hard to put a road map down. Nevertheless, prayer is indispensable. Spiritual Direction is a great help. Reading is also good. Read about saints, read about different spiritualities, the different religious orders, and see what stands out. Just gathering knowledge, talking to people about it.”


“Ultimately the vocation is about the will of God. What was I created to become? Who am I? What does God want me to do? How am I going to use my talents? So, whether it is to be married, religious, or single, it’s about discerning what God wants of us. The Lord says, ‘You did not choose me, I chose you. Come to me. Follow me.’ It could be ‘Come to me, follow me and be a mother.’ Or, ‘Come to me, follow me and be a father. Or, ‘Come to me, follow me, be a sister, or a priest.’ People ask me, ‘Why did you choose to become a Carmelite?’ And I reply, ‘I did not choose to be a Carmelite. I was chosen and I was called to be a Carmelite. I am responding to that call.’ The dynamic is between the call/vocation and our response. Our free response should be this loving, joyful response to what God wants us to do and become. God knows what we’re created for, so it’s that obedience to the call from God.”

Q5: Concerning prayer; it is at times very difficult to pray. Can you speak a little about how to pray well?

“First of all, the Mass is the best prayer. The Mass is the prayer of prayers, the Paschal Mystery. To participate in mass, to receive Holy Communion is the best prayer. In the mass, you pray over the word of God and you receive the body of Christ. This is why if you had to choose one prayer to pray every day, go to mass and pray the mass, participate in the mass. There is the Marian way of praying; to ponder the word of God in our hearts. She pondered the Word,
she treasured the word, she said yes to the Word of God. ‘Be it done unto me according to thy word.’ The Word became flesh in her and she gave birth to the Word of God. This Lectio Divina, this praying over the word is very, very important, and, ultimately, then to proclaim the word of God and to become a living word of God. Other than that, the Rosary is of course important, other types of traditional forms of prayer - novenas, litanies, and such. But, praying over
the word of God is important.”

Q6: How can one have that “peace and joy” when they
are following a certain path and have an idea of what they want, but then it seems God has a different plan? They seem so
contradictory…

“Great, great point! Edith Stein, St. Teresa Benedicta of the Cross, has a quote. She said, ‘What did not fit in with my plan, did fit in with the plan of God.’ I have an ever firmer and deeper conviction that every moment in my life, down to the smallest detail, has been preordained by God. And I am beginning to contemplate the beauty of His plan, here and now. So, what did not fit in with my plan… It’s a rollercoaster ride; a rollercoaster ride that is constantly evolving. You don’t know when it’s going to go left, right, into the tunnel, upside down, stop short, up or down, but this is where docility and trust in God come in. Jesus, Himself, was led into the desert. Abraham, by the way, speaking of vocations, was 75 years old when God said start walking in the desert. 75! ‘You start walking Abraham, take your wife, and I’ll care for you and tell you what to do.’

So, there must be this great abandonment, and this great trust. Whatever we are going to do in life, that is a very good attitude to have - this one of abandonment and trust, that God is leading me, God is guiding me. We want to be prudent of course. But, even going away to college takes a certain amount of audacity, confidence and trust, or Graduate school, let alone go off to work and finding a career. The fundamental thing would be that abandonment, trust in God and letting the Holy Spirit lead us.”

Q7: How much credence should one give to the opinions of others,
especially one’s family? What importance does the family play in a religious vocation?

“The ideal situation is that someone comes from a family that practices the faith, and prays together, you’ve heard the saying, ‘The family that prays together, stays together.’ From this milieu of love and faith in the family, many vocations are born. If the children are brought up in the faith, the parents are taking them to Mass, they’re praying the rosary together, and what have you…all that is very important. However, again the great mystery: There are people who are non-Catholic, converts, who have vocations; people who have been away from the Church, prodigal children, who have come back, Fr. John Corpi is an example. I don’t think in the midst of his millionaire days he ever thought about being a priest or a religious, so it [the vocation] is a great mystery. The family always is important; ultimately we’re all brothers and sisters. When we pray the Our Father, that reminds us that we are all called to be brothers and sisters in the Body and Blood of Christ. So, our natural families are important and always will be very, very important.

I was told by a Dominican nun once, who was trying to bring me into the Dominicans, ‘You know if you become a Dominican your whole family will share in your vocation.’ Which is true. The family supports the person, but the family also receives many, many blessings and love from the vocation of a child to the religious life, to the priesthood. So, it’s a two-way street. All the way through, I think the family needs to be supportive and involved. Sometimes, such as in lives of some saints, parents are adamantly against the vocations of their children. The parents were very, very against their child entering the cloister or becoming Carmelite, or becoming a priest, but these people where very determined and against all odds they said, ‘This is what God wants me to do, and I love my parents but…- ‘he who loves father and mother more than Me is not worthy of Me.’’ It takes great heroism to do that. I would say it’s not the common way, but it does happen.”

Q8: I’ve heard from different people that they’ve had a very clear calling, and form others that it was more gradual. Do you think that when you are called you have that “moment” of firm conviction, of clarity, “This is what God is asking!”

“Most of the time, I would say and prudence would say, it’s gradual. Religious- wise and the priesthood are designed that you have a deeper discernment, with aspirancy, postulancy, novitiate, then temporary vows and final solemn vows. It is all assuming that you are making deeper and deeper commitments, that you are taking root, and that you’re more convinced over time. The same for the priesthood, you have all of your studies, philosophy, theology, and then you’re ordained, you become a Deacon. Most of the time, the prudent thing is to go gradually, and to see that there are many confirmations in the vocation. However, in my case, once again my personal experience was that I had the kind of lightening bolt, absolute assurance that this was God’s will for me, and it was confirmed by my spiritual director. It is less common I would say, and may even be somewhat frowned upon, because they might not want people to be so cock-sure that this is what God wants. ‘Where’s the mystery, where’s the adventure?’ Personally, though, it be came very, very clear to me that I was to be a Carmelite priest. I was led onto that track and of course the conviction did grow deeper and deeper, all the way through I was being guided by the Holy Spirit…So, it’s hard to say; gradualism, deeper conviction as time goes on; it takes awhile to be solemnly professed or to be ordained. But it is very, very possible that you have that ‘moment of truth’ so to speak, and it becomes very clear that this is what God wants you to do. It’s such a grace, really, it’s kind of an undeniable grace, a signal grace- you’ve been given a certain sign, a certain calling- and then, as you go through, if that grace has been confirmed over the years, then it’s very, very obvious that this is what God wants you to do.”

Q9: You mentioned that you are a Carmelite priest, but, so that’s it’s more clear, can you just expand upon what you are currently doing?

"I am a Carmelite priest. I am Rector of the House of studies in Mount Angel, Oregon where we have 9 students. I had been the Novice Master so I knew all of these students when they were novices. Now, I am up there guiding them. So that is what I am doing at the moment.”

Q10: You went into your vocation story briefly already, but is there anything else you would like to add that you think may be helpful?

“I think I touched upon the basics…Mother Theresa helped me, ‘Rocked my World’ as they say. I found a spiritual director and I did my work and my prayer there. He sent me up to the Trappists, for instance, to see if any bells and whistles would go off. I went and it was nice enough, but no bells and whistles. Then, as I said, I thought a lot about joining Mother Theresa’s group, the Jesuits, the Dominicans, the sky was the limit. And it just became clear, through St. Therese, that I this was what God wanted me to do.”

Did you just study the Carmelite spirituality, or…?

“Yes, I got to know more about the Carmelite spirituality. There was a monastery of nuns that was praying for me in very big way. It was the convent in San Francisco, the Cristo Rey convent. Without getting into any specifics, it was also through the inversion of St. Therese. I will also add that it’s amazing to see how many Carmelites and non-Carmelite, how many vocations have been influenced by St. Therese in a very clear way. That she kind of comes… as she was very determined at the age of 15 that this was what she was going to do, became a Saint and a Doctor of the Church. I think praying to the Saints is an important thing, the communion of saints, especially if you’re thinking about joining one order to get to know the saints, the spirituality, as you say. To cultivate not only a personal relationship, friendship, with our Lord, but also with some of these saints. They are really closer than you
think.”

Q11: Can you talk about the vow chastity, or celibacy? It is something that, particularly today, doesn’t make any sense in the eyes of the world and can appear very daunting.

“Good question. ‘Blessed are the pure of heart for they shall see God…’ Unfortunately, we live in a world that has become pornographic, with the internet, cable TV, etc., and chastity and purity are mocked and scoffed at. But ultimately, we know that everyone is called to be chaste, everyone. But it is never easy to be chaste; celibacy is just one step farther. ‘Why would you not get married?’ a lot of people ask. It is sacrificial, for sure, it is a big sacrifice, but ultimately it is because our Lord didn’t get married. It is to model our lives more exactly to His life. ‘If you wish to be perfect, become celibate for the kingdom of God.’ It is absolutely counter-cultural. In our society, we have lust, greed and pride, while poverty, chastity and obedience overturn lust, greed and pride.

Chastity is a great witness factor. Also, it frees the heart to a universal love. All religious, by the way, are called to a perfection of charity, pefecti caritatis, ‘No greater love than to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.’ So, the perfection of charity, the undivided heart, that you lay down your life, as Christ did, with Christ, for the love of neighbor, for the salvation of their souls. When you see that sacrifice of not having a family and you open it up to this sacrificial self-offering, with the capacity to love with the very love of God and to enter into this perfection of charity as Christ did, then it is very worthwhile. Again, very counter-cultural, but very rewarding, a very beautiful, though not easy, thing. But we believe in the Grace of State, that you were given the vocation and the Lord will give you the grace.

Purity of heart, like sanctity, like perfection of charity, is a life-long journey. No one says, ‘Alright, I’ve arrived at the sanctity, I’ve arrived at the perfection of charity, I arrived at purity of heart, and so now I can see God.’ It is an on-going thing, a purification, kind of a pilgrimage. I would like to reiterate, again, that everyone is called to be chaste, to pure love, to charity. This friendship, this call to the perfection of charity, comes from our Lord within the context of friendship, ‘There is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.’

For most people, this perfection of charity takes place within the context of friendship within marriage. This is how their charity is perfected, sacrificing themselves for one another, and for their children, how they’re growing in holiness, purity of heart, and selflessness. It’s not easy, but friendship is the key, friendship with Christ. All of our friendships are healthy and holy insofar as our friendship with Christ is healthy and holy. All of the other friendships, among our peers, between the opposite sexes, will be healthy and pure, good and loving, insofar as our first friendship with Christ is healthy and holy, and growing and vital.”

Q12: As a Carmelite priest you take specific vows, right? What are they? could you explain them a little more?

“Yes, I briefly mentioned them earlier. The vows for all religious are the same, Mother Theresa of Calcutta’s sisters actually rake a fourth vow, which is to give wholehearted and free service to the poorest of the poor.

The three traditional vows, also known as the evangelical councils are the vows of poverty, chastity and obedience. They are based upon other vows which are our baptismal vows. The word ‘devote’, by the way, as in a ‘devote’ wife or a ‘devote’ Catholic, literally means ‘to be vowed’. That’s were we get he word ‘devote’, so a ‘devote’ wife is vowed to her husband, a ‘devote’ Catholic is vowed Catholic, and a ‘devote’ husband is vowed to his wife. We become devote religious insofar as we try to live these vows out. Again, we have these capital sins, we live in a society that has become quite secular, and even pagan one might say. Pride, selfishness, are combated with obedience, to the superior, to the one will of God, to share in charity.

God’s will is perfect charity, we pray, ‘Thy will be done’ well we could pray, ‘Thy love be done.’
Ultimately, the vow of obedience unites our will to the will of God, which is perfect love. Pride and disobedience caused the fall of the human being. Humility and obedience were our redemption. Christ humbled himself and was obedient unto death on the cross. Our Lady was humble and obedient, St. Joseph was humble and obedient, Our Lord was humble and obedient, we are all called to be humble and obedient; religious just in a particular way. Again, it’s for the perfection of charity.

The capital sin of lust, the concupiscential passions, the disordered attachments of the human being, little hedonistic pleasure seekers that we are, and this vow of chastity, the sacrificial self-offering of Christ allows us to put order in those disordered passions, so that we can live chastely again, so that we can love with an undivided heart. Poverty; again, we live in a very
materialistic world; a world of stock portfolios, and greed, and people can become very money hungry, but this vow poverty teaches us to be detached form the things of the world so that we can have spiritual treasures in heaven. Our Lord said, ‘If you love’, to the rich young man, ‘then sell all you have, give to the poor, and then come and be my disciple.’

So these vows, in a way, correct our fallen human nature. Even though not everyone is called to make these evangelical councils, vows, everyone is indeed called to be humble and obedient to God’s will. Everyone is called to poverty in spirit, ‘Blessed are the poor in spirit’ states the beatitudes. And to purity, ‘Blessed are the pure of heart for they shall see God.’ So all are called to this, but the religious in a more intense, formal way.”

Q13: How does one know which order to join?

“About orders… there are actually only a handful of orders: the order O.S.B. (Order of St. Benedict), the Order of Friars Minor, the Order of Preachers (Dominicans), the Order of Discalced Carmelites… That word order is an important word.

We believe that if a person is called to a certain order then it is there that our disordered human nature will find order. God took chaos and put order into the world when He created the universe. So the vocation, whether it’s to a specific order or a congregation, we believe that particular charism of that order, or congregation, or society is exactly what will enable this unique person to grow in holiness by living out that particular charism. Whatever that may be, Benedictine, Franciscan, Carmelite, Jesuit, Legioniare of Christ, Missionary of Charity, and the countless, really, ways of living that vocation out. But it will be a perfect match for the person’s personality, their talents, their gifts, their desires and what this particular group does. That is why it’s very important to pray and be open to the Holy Spirit.”

“Two words: Discernment and Docility. The root of the word discernment is the same root of the word ‘disciple’ and ‘discipline’. It means to learn.

Christ is the Master and we are disciples, so we are learners. We have to be open to learn at the foot of the Master what He wants to teach us. Discernment literally means, a learning process about yourself, about the congregation, about ultimately God’s will for you. Now, the word docile, its root means ‘to be teachable’.

A person must be teachable, must learn from the Holy Spirit. They must have the ‘discipline’ to learn and the ‘docility’ to be led by the Holy Spirit. So, if you discern and you are truly docile, you want to understand and learn what God’s will is for you, and then you are open to being taught and led by the Holy Spirit. Then, whatever your vocation is, you will be open to that. You know, some people want to be religious and God’s will is for them to be married. They try to do religious, or whatever, they find out and then they are happily married and have their family. The parents of St. Therese are a perfect example. They both wanted to be Religious, in the worst way, neither one became a religious and they got married and their daughter became a Doctor of the Church. They are now up for canonization, they’re way to sanctity was by being husband and wife and raising their family. They will be saints one day, I’m prophesying. So finally, Docility and Discernment, which go back to humble obedience.”

Q14: Prayer is often difficult and I know as Carmelites you pray a lot. So, could you offer any advice on how to pray?

“First of all, Our Lord tells us to pray without ceasing, ‘Pray always and in all ways’. A person who writes is a writer. A person who sings is a singer. A person who jogs is a jogger. And a person who prays is to become a prayer. Not just a prayer but a prayer. Everything that we do should be for the glory of God. It ‘should be an act of love’, as St. Theresa would say. God walks among the pots and pans.

So, we learn to make our entire lives a prayer, not just to fold our hands and bow our heads, but to do everything for the glory of God, to do everything for the love of God. In that way, our very lives become a prayer. Prayer is a very beautiful thing. It is communication, it’s contemplation, it’s ultimately loving, to learn how to love is what prayer is.

To receive love and to share love would be the greatest prayer. To receive the light of Christ and to radiate the light of Christ, to receive the peace of Christ and to share the peace, and the mercy, of Christ; it is this ongoing relationship with God, love of God and love of neighbor. We can only become our true selves only if we are doing God’s will, which is to grow in this charity, to grow in peace, to grow in wisdom, and we can only learn what that is by praying.

Prayer, you could say, is like the heart beat of the spiritual life. It’s like the soul of the spiritual life. We need to pray just to stay alive, spiritually. It’s like breathing. It’s our daily bread, eating, drinking and breathing. The other thing is that there are countless ways of praying and each tradition will have their own specific way of praying, their spirituality, to help one pray. The Carmelite way of is all about prayer. We have three Doctors of the Church who helped people to grow in their friendship with Christ, their intimacy with Christ.

I’ll give you three quick modes of contemplation-contemplation means to go into the temple, to dwell with God. The first is when Christ said, ‘I am the light of the World…You are the light of the world.’ and while He was praying He was transfigured on Mt. Tabor. While we are praying, we get transfigured in the light of Christ. You’ve seen ‘Glow in Dark’ toys, well, while we are praying we are ‘Glow in the Dark’ Catholics. The more we hold ourselves up to the Light, the more we absorb the light of Christ, and the more we are able to radiate the Light of Christ. It’s that transfiguring form of prayer contemplating seeing Christ, seeing God, so the first mode is that seeing.

We’ve heard it said that ‘seeing is believing’ but we actual believe that ‘believing is seeing’. That with our eyes closed in prayer, we can actual begin to glimpse the Glory of Heaven. The second mode would be the Marian mode which is, as I mentioned I think, to ponder the word of God in our hearts as Mary did. She treasured these words, she pondered them in her heart, and then she said, ‘Be it done unto me according to thy word.’ And the Word became flesh within her; she gave birth to the word of God.

This is what we are also called to do; to pray over the word of God, to listen, to ponder it, to obey the word of God, to say ‘yes’ to the word of God, to let it really take up residence in our hearts, to become flesh within us, and then to give birth to the word of God by proclaiming the word of God, and ultimately becoming the word of God. For instance, if you meditate on ‘Peace be with you’, ‘Peace be with you’, ‘Peace be with you’ until it becomes a part of your heart. Your response to the whole world can then be ‘Peace be with you.’ And you become the peacemaker, the peace of Christ in the world.

The third, again this is also on Mt. Tabor, a voice from the cloud said, ‘This is my beloved Son, listen to Him.’ So the first mode is contemplating the light, radiating the light, being transformed and transfigured in the light. The second mode is listen to the voice of Christ, pondering the word as Mary did. And the third mode of contemplation, which we also find on Mt. Tabor, is the point when Moses and Elijah were there, conversing with Christ. This mode is how St. Teresa would describe contemplation as a ‘heart to heart, loving, ongoing conversation, with a friend that you know loves you.’ This was the genius of St. Teresa, that contemplation is a conversation with a loving friend, a heart to heart, free flowing prayer of friendship, a conversation with Christ. I think these points are very important; so these are the very ‘Carmelite’ ways of prayer.”


Q15: As a religious, is there a favorite experience that you have had, or something that has been very helpful?


“ Well I mentioned that the Pope laid his hands on my head and that was very moving. To be able to offer Mass everyday is a great gift. Certain canonizations-I was at the canonization of St. Faustina, the first Saint canonized in the new millennium (April 30, 2000). I was there when St. Therese was declared a Doctor of the Church in Rome in 1997. There are so many great things. Studying in Rome was a great opportunity. It’s hard to say what my favorite or ‘most powerful’ experience was but, although religious life and the priesthood is sacrificial
and it is a challenge, and at times a ‘via cruces’, it is also heaven on earth. Because the Lord promises as we pray in the Our Father, ‘Thy will be done on earth as it is heaven.’ That if we are trying to do His will, His love everyday then we begin to experience, here and now, a little bit of heaven on earth. So, everyday is a great adventure and a great opportunity to behold the love of God and the mercy of God in our daily encounters.”

Q16: As a Carmelite religious, what type of activities do you do, what is your daily life like?
“’A day in the life’” would be mostly prayer. Above and beyond the Liturgy of the Hours, which we pray five times a day, we have two hours of contemplative prayer, one in the morning and one in the evening. For me, the high point of my day, the heart and soul of my day, is offering the Mass. By far, that is the most important period of time in my daily life. Other than that, the sky is the limit; days of recollection, retreats, novenas, spiritual direction, hearing confessions, all of the various ministries. It depends on what you’re doing, whether you’re in a parish, in a retreat center, with the students. There is a great need for priestly ministry and so there is great diversity of ministry. The days are quite ‘action packed’ and ultimately we’ve got to pray our way through the day and the mass is the heartbeat.”

Q17: Do you ever visit family and friends, or go outside of the Carmel to visit?

“Yes, we are Carmelite Friars. We were originally hermits on Mt. Carmel living in caves, in the same place as the dual spirits of Elijah the Prophet and Elijah the Mystic. But, when we
came to Europe in the 13th century, we became friars. And friars were the ones who kind of hopped over the monastery walls, so to speak, and brought the gospel to the people.

They were the first ones not to live behind the walls. So, we are not cloistered, we are not monks, we are not hermits anymore, we are friars and so we go out. We have to go out; ‘Active and Contemplative’.

About seeing the family: Yes, I think that’s always very important to have close contact with your family. It depends on where you’re stationed, if your near to your family or not, but generally
speaking there is time annual to be with one’s family. As I said earlier, ultimately, we are all one family. God is our Father and we are all brothers and sisters in Christ. But, the natural family on the natural level is always the most important. It’s good for them to see us and it’s good for us to see them. So there is time for that, time to go out, to do different activities and ministries; again it depends on the individual.”

The Invisible Woman (English)

Our greatest gift to Christ -- Take 2!

Bible Stories
April 27, 2009



St. Victor Catholic Church in North Hollywood has started a Discipleship group that meets the second Thursday of each month at 8:00 p.m. The next two meetings are May 14th and June 11th. All are welcome.

Father Paul
The Easter candle is like Christ’s divine light. He shares that with others. Each time someone takes His divine light and lights their own candle, the light of the Easter candle is undimmed. Every time it divides, it is just as light; yet, there are a lot more lights that are lit. Each time you come [to Christ], you can take as much as you want. No matter how much light we take, there is always more!

The topic last Thursday at St. Victor’s was “What is Discipleship?” Several who attended that meeting were at this Discipleship meeting. Father Paul asked if someone from St. Victor’s would talk about what was discussed regarding discipleship.

Andrew
We are called to make Disciples of all nations, to make them other Christs.

Father Paul
Does that sound impossible, or really impossible?

Brian
Depends on who is doing the work. No other institution has lasted this long. It is like a musical note. If it stands alone, it doesn’t do much. You can’t create a key signature. You put two notes together, and you have harmony created between them. They are different harmonies coming together. It is like the Holy Spirit coming together with the Father and the Son, which is much like us coming together in this world.

Father Paul
I was speaking to a person today. They were very excited about this intimate personal encounter with Jesus. But, she really didn’t have a lot of good feelings about structure. What I hear you saying is that when there is structure, it provides a place for the notes to be.

We are talking about the value of relationship. In relationship there can be spirit. I think we can get on safe grounds by saying the longest running relationship is the Trinity. That is a relationship between the Father and the Son, and it is the relationship with the Holy Spirit. In order for God to be encounterable, there must be a structure. Part of that oneness came in a way that was expressed and encountered among us. He came and was always in relationship with the Father. Sometimes it feels like that Spirit, that relationship between two parties, is really what gives value and meaning and makes it all worthwhile. Even though you can’t grab it or manipulate it, it seems very real.

Ethan
There are men and women who are going out. When women are involved, the music is more interesting.

Kenneth
Without wombs, we would not have an incarnate God.

Father Paul
That Spirit of God is invisible, it is attempting to make us into other Christ’s. It has gotten into the human community by those who give an open space for that to occur. They leave a space open.

Brian
It seemed scary to turn others into Christs. It is nice to remember if we can trust, which is the first step, then we can realize how funny it is that we thought it was scary. We can see how possible it really is.

Father Paul
Estrella how does this seem to you?

Estrella
It is like dancing. If we don’t have Christ as a partner, it is not going to work.

Father Paul
What I hear you saying is that if the initial relationship in the family is broken, they can still have access to God. God has a restoring power of relationship of love where all is not well in Paradise.

Jessica
We have to be weak and recognize our weaknesses in order to be strengthened by those in God. We all come from some brokenness. Some may be stronger than others in order to heal. In that way, we are able to be little Christs. It is not us going to this person, but Jesus going to this person and helping in whatever they need. I have been experiencing it. I am doing the craziest things imaginable…after I met Christ. I am a loser for Christ. It is cool being a loser for Christ.

Father Paul
What I hear is that there can be brokenness. God can be there in that. There is something about recognizing our imperfectness which actually can be a really, really wonderful thing.

Louise
I was thinking about how we come to God as a needy child. With God everything is so simple. He heals us.

Nicholas
Maybe people could share their own personal stories and encounters.

Josie
Everyday I’m in continuous, spontaneous prayer. I like to always think of God on my everyday experience, and experience our Lord. We have so much to learn about our church and our faith. Every day I can pick up something new, I don’t need to watch TV.

Alex
I’m not sure where I am, but I ask the Lord to help me. I wasn’t going to come, but I know that God was calling me to be here.

Laura
I have no clue what’s going on. I hoped there was books and no talking, but now everybody is talking! I was walking my dog, and Josie was walking her dog and we started speaking. All I heard was, “Do you know what time confession is?” I thought, If that’s not the grace of God, and I’m just happy to be here.

Demetria
I’m searching for a deeper communion with Jesus

Bob
I’ve been retired for about 5 years, but I’ve wanted to serve since I’ve retired. I serve at a soup kitchen and at the parish ministry.

Robert
I’ve been going steady, but not getting where I want to be, but I’m longing for a closer relationship with God.

Father Paul
That translates into becoming God, because when you’re in relationship with someone you become that. You mutually become a new order of being, but not necessarily each other. We’re making it up as we go along. (Laughter)

Kristin
I missed the meeting on Easter Monday because I was in chains in prison. I spent six days at the gates of Hell, and so I catechized there and helped some amazing women. The point is that this is Christ’s work. It’s not the place or the way I would have thought, or chosen, to do Christ's work. I wanted very much, expected, and asked Our Lord to make it possible, to be here with you. At the same time, I reassured Him I was willing, content and happy to do whatever He preferred -- His Will His Way. So, He blessed me with another sort of Discipleship that Easter Monday night -- one I could not possibly have chosen or ever thought myself worthy or capable of -- but it clearly wasn't me -- it was entirely Him -- His doing -- His Will. Ultimately, that is what this exercise is all about. We were all still together in Christ.

Patricia
I’m amazed and determined. Amazed because I received a blessing from Father Paul. I wasn’t a big believer in hearing people talk about the Holy Spirit, but when I was in the room with you and with my eyes closed, I saw a white light and almost saw an outline of Jesus…and determined to remain in this union

Father Paul
We have a responsibility to cooperate with what God is doing in us…looking for a trust factor.

Scottie
I feel confused on how to evangelize or not to, or how to talk to people about God and your experience and share your relationship. I’m in philosophy class, and it gets confusing…am I supposed to be nice or harsh?

Stacy
Nice. (Laughter) He’s like a brother to me. Father thank you. I feel like I’m at home. I love adoration. I’m Egyptian, and we cover our heads whether Christian or Muslim, and it’s more simple just like St. Therese…keep it simple. I just started learning about our faith a year ago. Our Blessed Mother is our mother. I’m staying home because this faith is so rich. I just met Scottie a week ago, and I told him he’s my brother….so happy to be home. I saw Muslims in Egypt who sacrificed themselves blowing up buildings and going against the government who is pro-American. I’m just so happy to know Jesus, because there are so many souls who are misled. It’s a blessing to be born Catholic.

Kenneth
I’m unique in my spiritual history. I was raised in a very Protestant family. I stopped going to church and became a legit pagan. I started feeling like monotheism was the truth and was led to the Catholic Church, and it was tough, but it was a long interesting journey.

Brian
I feel a little bit anxious but that’s ok. I just love God, and hope that I never forget that; and he always gives me what I need.



Mylene
I’m so overwhelmed right now [and] very high-strung. I feel like I’m in a constant struggle with what I want and what I need and praying that what I need is what I want. I’m so grateful to have this [group].

Sister Sheila
I feel like I love God and that I have a lot to learn.

Tabatha
I feel like I’m in a place of surrender and acceptance. It’s like Jesus is a dentist. He exposes what needs to be healed, the poison, before it gets better. My spirituality is very weak. I’m like a tree that keeps getting blown around with no roots attached to hold me in place. I had a vision like I was going into the ground and my arms were digging in the dirt to put roots down, but I wasn’t getting anywhere. But then the vision changed that I fell asleep and drifted down into the ground. I was being pulled to the center of the earth where the Trinity was. If I can get there I’ll be ok. I’m spiritually napping and letting God grow the roots.

Kenneth
So, you are under anesthesia and napping while the dentist works. (Laughter)

Anna
I usually don’t talk in front of people. Father Paul discovered me. He came to bless my house, and ever since then I haven’t let go. Sometimes I struggle, but I feel like God really wants me. And sometimes it’s hard for me to let go. But I see Tabatha struggling, and I know that I’m not alone.

Ethan
I am just very thankful to be here in all of your presence. I feel the Jesus in all of you, and in me. It stirs it up in me. Thank you for loving Him.

Gabriella
I felt like Father came to my house and called my daughter. I felt his love pull her in a lot. My heart is coming out. I saw Jesus. I felt like Jesus was very thirsty. I was telling people to give him water to drink. I went to his feet and cried at his feet. Jesus came down and said, “Eat my flesh and drink my blood.” During Holy Thursday, my heart was just pounding. [I said] Jesus you are with me. Thank you. Thank you.

Phyllis
I have been Catholic for almost a year. I came from Lutheran faith. I am amazed at what an awesome God we serve. I am just amazed with Christ.

Lorena (mother)
I have four children. I am just jumping here and there too trying to learn about God.

Lorena (daughter)
I am just doing what she does.

Martha
I met Father Paul about a month after he became a priest. Someone said certain priests have different gifts. I was in the back and hadn’t met him. You could tell the Holy Spirit was so strong with him. You could see a change in him before mass and after. You could see the Holy Spirit. I can feel the strength of the Holy Spirit. There are hearts beating. I have been in the charismatic movement for 10 years, and I know nothing.
I can feel the Holy Spirit moving in this room. It is going to work in you. I am feeling this and sharing it. I cannot contain it. The Lord is with you very, very strongly. Thank God we can say, “Alleluia,” now that Lent is over! I am grateful we can say that. I go to the Easter Vigil. It is beautiful to come to a place and say, “Alleluia.” We can receive our Sacraments. We can be an example. Pray for the kids who are making their first penance. It is beautiful. I know there are questions you guys have. Thank you for putting this together. My heart is in my throat because I can feel your joy. I have chills because some of you are so happy.

Tyree
I have been Catholic all my life. For me, the lesson of the day is to hope in the Lord. To hope in a man who lived and died and continues to live. That is why I come here, to learn to hope in Jesus Christ the Son, Jesus Christ the God, Jesus Christ the Spirit. That is what I am hoping for. I don’t know how it’s all going to come out.

Krissy
I am feeling tested. I won’t learn my lesson. I have challenges in all areas of my life. I can’t seem to trust God when I have to. He hopes I will turn to him. I am glad to be here.

Andrew
I am hopeful and I am afraid. I am afraid to be vulnerable, to open myself up to God. But I am hopeful that if I do, cool things are gonna’ happen.

Nicholas
I think I am in love with Scottie’s sister! (Roaring laughter)
I relate to her in that I was going to an Episcopal church. In a certain situation, you might feel more safe; especially during Eucharist. I never felt it.

Mando
Do you want to be a nun? (Laughter)

Nicholas
I hope it is real. I went on a personal retreat at St. Andrew’s Abbey. That is how I celebrated finishing graduate work. That was the logical place to go and let loose. (Laughter) I intellectualize a lot. I wanted to introduce “me” to it all. They were real people with real problems. I met a Brother Cassian there, and I ran into Ethan there. We met in passing, and I said, “Whatever…let me finish my vacation.” I spoke to Brother Cassian. He connected me with Father Paul. I got back in touch with Ethan, and a lot of profoundly bad things have happened (laughter) …and I don’t care. I got in a car wreck. I wasn’t even a block from my friend’s house. I had a witness, and I am getting a new car. I went to this monastery and said, “This is it!” I don’t want to make Father Paul into a mini-god, but he seems to be in a place that is similar to me. I am feeling a grace I cannot see or communicate. I recently read a book and it spoke to me and got me beyond just having faith to a place that I can see morals and what they mean.

Krystal
I think this group has helped me a lot with my faith. When I finally did confirmation, it lit me on fire. I wanted to learn more and feel more. Once you start learning about God, and knowing Him, things that would never have bothered me, hurt me. It hurts God. I am found in God. I have been tested a lot. When I feel lost, it is when I am far from God. I am the one who is far from Him.

Chris
I missed the initial question…

Father Paul
I think we all did! (Laughter) What is my way of being? Or, whatever.

Chris
My way of being…I guess what I think of…I can relate to the movies brought in. I watched The Bells of St Mary’s . One of the girls is asked to bring five senses together. She has them wrong. She adds ”to be’… to be present and to be who we are in God. She related it to Hamlet. To be or not to be. For me, to be, to be present as possible to God and my relationship to Him. I am being asked to trust in my life, my future, my finances; knowing He is going to take care of everything. All that has happened and will happen is in Him.

Rosemarie
I am amazed and transformed. The last two weeks has been difficult. My best friend’s daughter is getting married. Finally, with wrestling with this trip. I went on my knees and just fell asleep. The Lord told me He would be with me on the trip. My friends are protestants. I told the Lord if He wanted this to be a trip of evangelizing, it will be.

Joe
My way of being, I think I am greedy and ambitious. I want to learn and be exposed to as many things as possible. I came because I checked out four DVD’s last time. I am a cradle Catholic. I realize that I have been making good excuses that I have no male role model. Psychologically, that stuck with me for a long time. A few years ago, I let it go and forgave my father. The whole time I have a pretty good role model, in Jesus. And I watch these movies on the saints. They are like rock stars! When I come out of James Bond…I can be James Bond. When I see movies about St. Francis, I am so charged up. I just want to love as much as possible.

Father Paul
Why is this called the “Acts of Apostles?”

Someone responded that the Acts of the Apostles is an actual continuation of Jesus. We are supposed to make other Christs. We have a continuation of one Christ in others bodies.

We read Acts of the Apostles Chapter 4: 8-12

“Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, answered them, ‘Leaders of the people and elders:
If we are being examined today about a good deed done to a cripple, namely, by what means he was saved,
then all of you and all the people of Israel should know that it was in the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarean whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead; in his name this man stands before you healed.
He is 'the stone rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone.'
There is no salvation through anyone else, nor is there any other name under heaven given to the human race by which we are to be saved’."

Stacy
It takes me back to the Middle East. There is no salvation except through Jesus Christ. There it is. Again, I just thank Jesus.

Brian
I was kinda’ confused last night. I was opened to being helped and being held. I was confused about who was there wanting to hold me. And I know there are other things out there that I don’t know about. I knew I needed to be held. I tried to listen and prayed to know that you [God] are going to take hold of me and then He took care of me. It came from saying, “I am open to everything, but I need you.”

Gabriel
His love is so powerful He can heal our brokenness. I think about my own failings in life. I know God the Father in Jesus Christ is calling for me to be healed.

Next reading: First Letter of John Chapter 3: 1-2
“See what love the Father has bestowed on us that we may be called the children of God. Yet so we are. The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Beloved, we are God’s children now; what we shall be has not yet been revealed. We do know that when it is revealed we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.”

Patricia
I have done so much for my family. Now, I am doing everything for the name of Jesus, for the name of God. I am living for God and everything He stands for.

Father
How did you get like this?

Patricia
Partly because I met you [Father Paul], and because I opened the door completely letting all emotions, fear mix in with God and see how it worked. I was in a car wreck too. I am saving up for my house, and I just said, “Ok.” I know if I hadn’t been in this state of mind…all is well.

Stacy
I wanted to comment about going to God all imperfect. He just loves us so much that He accepts us. That is why He is on the cross.

Father Paul
I get so happy when I hear someone say, “I am lost or just beginning.” Jesus is so grateful when we just show Him where we are. He gives us grace and strength that He helps us open up these places that are worse. He goes deeper and deeper. The contemplative prayer is the way we allow Him to go deeper and deeper and heal those places.

Alex
“See what love the Father has bestowed on us.” I just keep thinking of the love God has for us. He wants to be in the garbage with us. Even in my thoughts, if they are not good, he wants to be there with me. When I was in a negative thought, I invited Him to come into it. He transformed it. He is not afraid to enter into something that is not of Him. He transforms it.

Father Paul
There are people who have been praying for years and are just as unknowing. You cannot even count the hours. Christ wants us to forever be beginners. Any time He touches us, it is a small comparison to what the whole realm is. I was talking to someone who is one of those people. He is the guy giving the retreat for the monks at Valyermo. He was asking, “What do you do when you get into prayer and it feels like grace is coming in? What do you do with the part that is fighting it. How is one to be with that…to allow Christ to move through. Allow Christ to come in with all that?” Anything that is unhealthy energy, He takes into Himself. That gets tamed to another whole level. We just trust and stay in that zone. It is the same thing we are dong; the same thing this guy is doing. I connect my lostness with someone else’s lostness. Jesus says He thinks He’s got enough. You know the fighting doesn’t work. A new person will start to open to you, but you know you have nothing to give. You get used to Christ being in the middle of all that mess. You are both opening up to Christ. He honors that communion and comes in and heals. I am the same, but Christ is happy to be with loneliness and lostness.

Bethany
The way Alex invited God into our bad thoughts. The natural thoughts of negativity is shame. I think shame is the worst thing that can come into your spiritual life. Shame makes you hide…like Adam and Eve. My natural response is to feel the shame and hide.

Joe
What we just read, for me, taking ourselves as literal “children of God.” It may be hard to believe. Since I have made God the Father my Father, I am making it like He is my earthly father. So many don’t make him our father. That is why they are so far from me. My family knows my scars, and illnesses. The more we make the Father our earthly father, the better it is for us. The King of Kings is our earthly father. He has our back covered!

Sister Sheila
In that shame, I have discovered going to Mary because she has a tender heart and is open to the Holy Spirit. What we block, she can help us open us. She helps with what we block.

Stacy
Sometimes it is hard to accept “Beloved,” that there is someone who loves us unconditionally. The word in itself is so beautiful.

Patrick
In regards to shame, my life and my beliefs were opposite. I would go to Mass and leave because my sin brought shame to me. Over a month ago, I said I would give up everything. I wouldn’t even pray. He reached out to me in my agony and changed my life 360 degrees. Maybe even though you don’t reach out to Him, He still reaches out to you. One day, I let it out, and that was it! God has intervened in my life.

Father Paul
Talking about the word “Beloved,” we had to write a letter to God and then write what God would be writing to me. I only got to two words…Dear Paul. That is that word “Beloved.” Somehow we have to get that…that’s what gets us a marker on the board of these experiences. When God is saying, “Beloved” and He is not talking to the person next to us.

Ethan
“See what love the Father has bestowed on us that we may be called the children of God.” This comes back to Ephesians. He is giving us Heaven so we can be called the children of God.

Father Paul
I cannot become “Beloved” or have an act of the “Beloved ones.” I have to be in union with the others He is calling “Beloved.” I can’t really get it until we get it together. It’s about all of it together. He is not alive until the rest of His body comes together. St. Paul says, “I want to be with Christ only if the others are with Christ.”

Brian
I don’t even understand what St Paul said…I don’t want to be with Christ.

Father Paul
Let’s go to Romans 9: 1-3

“I speak the truth in Christ, I do not lie; my conscience joins with the holy Spirit in bearing me witness
that I have great sorrow and constant anguish in my heart.
For I could wish that I myself were accursed and separated from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kin according to the flesh.”

Father Paul
That is Jesus’ own longing in St. Paul.

Reading: John 10:11-18

“I am the good shepherd. A good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. A hired man, who is not a shepherd and whose sheep are not his own, sees a wolf coming and leaves the sheep and runs away, and the wolf catches and scatters them. This is because he works for pay and has no concern for the sheep. I am the good shepherd, and I know mine and mine know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I will lay down my life for the sheep. I have other sheep that do not belong to this fold. These also I must lead, and they will hear my voice, and there will be one flock, one shepherd. This is why the Father loves me, because I lay down my life in order to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down on my own. I have power to lay it down, and power to take it up again. This command I have received from my Father."

Tyree
Wow! (Laughter) He goes right to the heart of it, right to the center.

Stacy
I get confused. The Father, is He a Spirit, a person?

Father Paul
Yes.
Three persons in One God. A communion of persons.

Kenneth
There is such a perfect outpouring of love and self and will that is perfectly reflected by the Son. So perfect, that relationship became its own person. Is that the Holy Spirit?

Father Paul
Yes. The Father can only pour Himself out if there is a person who is open to completely receive. If you can only pour out half of it, and that person can only receive half, then God can only be half of who He receives. The Son received all of what the Father is. Part of the Father is the Son who is open to outpouring in reality of His Father, and now He will have nothing but the Father in Him and now all you can do is pour out completely who you are. St. Paul said he needed his brothers to be woken up in communion for me to be who I am. Our greatest gift for Christ is not what we do for Him…but what He can do for us. I was asking God, “How can I thank you for all you have given me?” [He said,] “The only way you can thank me is to be open to receive more. I get so thrilled with that. And if you want to thank me again,….you know what’s next.” Then you have this outpouring. You are just looking for a place for this to go. You are looking for others who will receive.

Stacy
The Father just existed.

Father Paul
With a big “E.” He is supporting everything in being. It is not imaginable. It is beyond a “thing”
The fun part I like, ”I have the power to lay it down.” He is doing this only because He is God Himself. We get naive [by saying that] I am going empty myself. You are still doing the emptying. You do not have the power to empty yourself. Christ himself infuses us with His own power that He has to lay down His life. We go so far, and then it gets embarrassing. Christ gives us His own being. Christ says He will come into all that with you. His life is the Divine Trinity. If we allow Him, He will lay down His life within us. We don’t worry about not being perfect. I can’t be nice. I can’t fast perfectly. He lets us try so that we may become humble. You will be more disposed before you take over again. [Christ says] it will be an on-going resignation to my presence and my being in you. That is a poverty of spirit. Blessed are the poor in spirit…because you are allowing God’s own spirit to wed with your spirit. The Kingdom of God will be in us, the two become one. We continually yield to Him. Christ had to continually learn how to be wed in a complementary union with the Father.

It is cheating in a good way if you have this disposition and child-like place and then cheat to allow God to add the Eucharist. It just puts it into light speed. Jesus in the Eucharist says, “I will help you. I will do the dying for you. Oh, you need a little more relationship, I can give you more of that.” The more we rest, the more we sleep and the more we let him in those places. It is all there in Christ. As we yield to that activity, we allow Christ’s intensified presence in us. All prayer is participation in Christ’s own prayer He implants in us. Our inner being moves in that Divine dance. Our own being moves in that Divine way…moving and consecrating. This might be a way to get back this game that is out of control.

Patricia told the story that she heard a homily that they put inferred cameras in on patients in the hospital. The colors on the camera were dark when they were sick. When the patients received the Eucharist, they radiated and they were light. This light came out of them and completely changed those colors.

Father Paul
Jesus is really Jesus…but the activation in participation is up to us. The switch is up to us. The pope had an Encyclical about the Eucharist. Christ needs us to allow an access so relationship can be mutual. It frees us to participate more. Christ wants us to be open and vulnerable during communion. He wants to receive within us, His own self.

By His grace and gift, we are activated by His grace and gift in us. We participate. That is why Christ could not become man unless there was a gift of grace, of Christ on the cross, Mary. She could not have done it as a creature. She needed a divine grace that was given to her in advance of Christ on the cross.

God was God…always. He also became creation. When Christ died, He saved everybody from sin. He took all sin into himself…even Mary’s preemptively. She was given an advanced payment of the grace.

Next Discipleship Meeting:

Monday, May 11, 2009 @ 7pm
St. Andrew’s school conference room

Our greatest gift to Christ is what we will allow Him to do for us

St. Andrew’s Discipleship & Bible Stories


St Victor’s discipleship on Thursday – a few of our group went and recapped for us: we are called to make disciples of all nations and to make others into other Christos – this is impossible if we are doing it ourselves but if we are working with Christ what is or seems impossible, or scary is accomplished because God does the impossible for and with us.

The value of not just one thing or person but a relationship – there can be a new sort of “spirit” in a relationship

The longest running structured relationship is the Most Holy Trinity – a dynamic structure of intimacy and Love – within God there is a movement, relationship, dynamic, structure – until God came among us and talked about this Trinitarian relationship we couldn’t even begin to imagine it: Christ keeps referring to His relationship : the Father and I are one (not I am God period – there is always the relationship referenced here – if you see Me you see the Father – If I go to the Father, I will send the Holy Spirit … etc.

Relationship is really what gives something a new kind of value and meaning even though you can’t grab it, control it, and manipulate it.

In music if you have one thing standing on its own you don’t have structure but when you put 2 notes together you have harmony and structure – scripture if you have two or more gathered in My Name – also scripture mentions the harmony of notes (Genesis Chapter 1, Matthew 18:19-21)

Just having a base is boring (fun for a while) but if you add in treble and higher notes you have a much more interesting relationship and musical piece.

“It takes two to tango.” Dancing, like music is a good example of the benefits of a relationship.

All is not well in paradise – God can restore Loving relationships that have been broken.

We need to recognize our weaknesses in order to be strengthened in God. Being able to recognize our weakness allows us to heal. Jesus in us approaches others to help them in their need and Jesus in them approaches us to help us in our need.

What is my way of being :

To be and to be present with Him, present to God and trust in Him with my life, future, finances – allow my Faith to be stretched.

There is something about recognizing our imperfectness which can be a really wonderful thing !

We come to Christ like a needy little child. Everything with God is so simple. He bandages and heals our wounds. But everything with God is so simple.

My twins keep me in check by saying: “The Holy Spirit wouldn’t say that.”

We are allowing Christ into the room – allowing Christ to become more real – how He has been pulling and moving and choreographing us in Christ. We get samples of God – we allow Christ to get catches of us and allow Him to start turning us into His Divine Life.

You mutually become a new order of being as this relationship in Christ transforms each of you.

There’s a constant struggle with what I want and what I need and praying to God that what I need becomes what I want !!!

Jesus exposes us like a dentist and spiritually I’m at the dentist right now, and I’m also like a little tree without roots that just blows and blows – I’m trying to plant roots and getting nowhere and then I finally just rested and went to sleep and suddenly all the roots were growing strong – a little tree that keeps re-transplanting – He’s calling me to nap spiritually – Christ is the dentist with anesthesia – while I am struggling to set down roots

The stakes keep getting greater for us to exercise our trust and Hope in God more.

It always happens that way. Just when you find the one and only they want to become a nun. I was going to the Episcopal Church because they were more liberal but I never felt Christ’s Presence especially during the services and something always took me back to the Catholic Church and now I’m considering a Vocation. A lot of profoundly negative things have happened. The Episcopal church really misses the boat on morals and what they mean in our lives.

Things that would not have bothered me so much before bother me very much now.

I am found in God; God is never far from me but I allow things to take me far from God.

Acts 4:8-12 actual continuation of Jesus – we are to make other Christos – one Christ in other bodies

8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said to them: Ye princes of the people, and ancients, hear: 9 If we this day are examined concerning the good deed done to the infirm man, by what means he hath been made whole: 10 Be it known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God hath raised from the dead, even by him this man stands here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was rejected by you the builders, which is become the head of the corner. 12 Neither is there salvation in any other. For there is no other name under heaven given to men, whereby we must be saved.


God’s Love is so powerful that He can heal broken souls – we think of our own failings and know that Jesus Christ is calling for us to be healed.

1 Jn 3:1-2 See what Love the Father has bestowed on us, that we may be called the children of God the reason that the world does not know us is because the world did not know Him …

1 Behold what manner of charity the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called, and should be the sons of God. Therefore the world knoweth not us, because it knew not him. 2 Dearly beloved, we are now the sons of God; and it hath not yet appeared what we shall be. We know, that, when he shall appear, we shall be like to him: because we shall see him as he is.


Christ enters into the place of brokenness and confusion and darkness. He opens up the next level of denial and garbage and allows us to feel so secure that we can open up the wound and go into the darkness and unlock those chambers while we are resting and remove the poison/garbage at each level – we allow Christ to take whatever is unhealthy and Christ removes the rot and does the doing. We stay in that zone until He goes in and tames the roots.

Christ wants us forever to be little beginners; the measure between God and us is INFINITE.
All these people are having the exactly the same kinds of experiences. We are His Beloved. The word “Beloved” in itself is so beautiful.

Romans 9:1-3 “There is no monkey crazier than St Paul.” (Yup. That is a direct quote from Fr Paul G)

St Paul goes really insane. I’m dead on. – I speak the Truth in Christ. My … I have great sorrow and constant anguish. Separated from my brothers. Christ cannot Live without coming alive in the one next to you !

1 I speak the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost: 2 That I have great sadness, and continual sorrow in my heart. 3 For I wished myself to be an anathema from Christ, for my brethren, who are my kinsmen according to the flesh,

Jn 10: 11-18

11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives his life for his sheep. 12 But the hireling, and he that is not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep, and flees: and the wolf catches, and scatters the sheep: 13 And the hireling flees, because he is a hireling: and he hath no care for the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd; and I know mine, and mine know me. 15 As the Father knows me, and I know the Father: and I lay down my life for my sheep.
16 And other sheep I have, that are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice, and there shall be one fold and one shepherd. 17 Therefore doth the Father love me: because I lay down my life, that I may take it again. 18 No man takes it away from me: but I lay it down of myself, and I have power to lay it down: and I have power to take it up again. This commandment have I received of my Father.


I Am the Good Shepherd … I lay down My Life for My sheep. St Paul got this “crazy” Love from Jesus Who got it from the Father so we have a crazy family… The hireling sees the wolf coming and runs away… because He works for pay. I know Mine and Mine know Me. Jesus knows how Beloved He is of the Father. The two of them are coming into intimate union, communion over and over. You are just as Beloved to me as I Am beloved by My Heavenly Father and I want you to become just as beloved of Me. He who works for pay and has no concern for the sheep. Just as I know the Father and the Father knows Me. I will lay down My Life for the sheep. Other sheep I have that are not of This Fold. This is why the Father Loves Me. I have power to lay My Life down and the power to take it up again. This command I have received from My Father.

St Paul: I need my brothers, sisters [others] to come into this union with me or I will never be who I am !

Our greatest gift to Christ is what we will allow Him to do for us.

All we can do is receive. Be open to receive more. Anything else is an insult. I get so thrilled with that. Open yourself to receive more. Be a place to receive.

Only God Himself has the power to lay down His Life. You can’t, you don’t have the power to empty yourself. Christ Himself infuses His power – that He alone has – to lay down our life – let it be My power – My activity combined with your willingness to let this [contemplative] stuff go on – than lay down your life. We don’t have to worry about the fact that I can’t be a good person, can’t pray, can’t do anything much. “I live now, not I, but Christ in me.” (Galatians 2:20)

Humility – I really can’t do it. Guess what. You have a little bit more humility now, so allow Me to enter in. An ongoing resignation, spirit of resignation to My Presence, My Divinity – Poverty of Spirit – an on-going resignation to let Christ work. Allowing God’s Holy Spirit to wed our spirit – two becoming one, Allowing the Holy Spirit to overshadow us.

All prayer is Christ’s own prayer so that our capacity to move in Divine ways and our inner being moves and consecrates – time to open the secret passages.

Just the physical Presence of God Himself is not enough – He needs us to allow an access so that the relationship is mutual. He then frees more of us to participate. Christ wants us to become integrated. Christ wants us to be vulnerable, exposed (not compartmentalized) to Him. He receives from within us His own self. We are activated by His grace and we participate.

Christ could not become Man unless there was a Gift – a Supernatural Grace given by Christ on the Cross – an advance on the allowance – the Blessed Virgin Mary could not have done Her work as the Mother of God only as a creature (by or according to human nature) – she needed a unique Divine (Supernatural/Sanctifying) Grace. She is full of grace: She is The Immaculate Conception.

Something Strange Is Happening ...

Discipleship Meeting
April 13, 2009

Something strange is happening….

We shared movie reviews and Triduum experiences. The following movies were recommended:
St. Rita, Mother Teresa, Song of Bernadette, St. Patrick of Ireland

Father Paul shared that when he came back to the Church, he joined a friend who had a study group. One of the people was on the Board of Trustees at a school. This person was going to meet with Spirit Guides. Father Paul said he stayed in prayer, in union with Christ. He said they were doing whatever…they normally go into some kind of whatever they do, and the people trying to call on the spirit guides said they were having a hard time dialing in on what they normally do. Their spirit guides were saying there was a much higher power in the room, and they did not want to come out with a much higher power in the room. Jesus was in the room! Father Paul said he did not say a word. They recognized a power greater than they had going on. Moses came with the power of the Lord. Spirits may or may not be lined up with God. There are holy angels and rebellious ones that are “fallen” aka demons. These realms are very real

Beth
There is a Catholic book about Saints who brought people back from the dead.

Father Paul
We don’t want to say that miracles only “used to happen.” We don’t want to limit God to what has been done. We don’t know what God is about to do.

Chris
I am interested in Pope John Paul II. Being a history teacher, I reminisced about the politics and the political-science piece. He had such an impact around the world. It was just the anniversary of his death. We talked about him in class. He was the most-traveled Pope and created World Youth Day. He is impacting the world today through students.



Sister Sheila
In 2004, I went to Rome and they were celebrating his 25th year. [At the time] I was working with victims of sexual abuse. I got a ticket to go to the public audience. You show your ticket and go to next place. The seat was right behind all the Cardinals and Bishops. What was moving was [the Pope] was suffering so much and here he was reaching out to all the people who had come to see him.

Chris
There is a lot I learned about his life…growing up Poland…the Nazi’s …he was at such a young age. He asked the Cardinal [why he had been chosen as Pope and the Cardinal said] everyone else said, “No” to him. He suffered and gave Mass from his hospital bed. He forgave the man who shot at him. He is inspiring.




We read from Liturgy of the Hours,” From an ancient homily on Holy Saturday” ( p.496)

The Lord descends into hell


“Something strange is happening—there is a great silence on earth today, a great silence and stillness. The whole earth keeps silence because the King is asleep. The earth trembled and is still because God has fallen asleep in the flesh and he has raised up all who have slept ever since the world began. God has died in the flesh and hell trembles with fear.
He has gone to search for our first parent, as for a lost sheep. Greatly desiring to visit those who live in darkness and in the shadow of death, he has gone to free from sorrow the captives Adam and Eve, he who is both God and the son of Eve. The Lord approached them bearing the cross, the weapon that had won him the victory. At the sight of him Adam, the first man he had created, struck his breast in terror and cried out to everyone: ‘My Lord be with you all.’ Christ answered him: ‘And with your spirit.’ He took him by the hand and raised him up, saying: ‘Awake, O sleeper, and rise from the dead, and Christ will give you light.’
I am your God, who for your sake have become your son. Out of love for you and for your descendants I now by my own authority command all who are held in bondage to come forth, all who are in darkness to be enlightened, all who are sleeping to arise. I order you, O sleeper, to awake. I did not create you to be held a prisoner in hell. Rise from the dead, for I am the life of the dead. Rise up, work of my hands, you who were created in my image. Rise, let us leave this place, for you are in me and I am in you; together we form only one person and we cannot be separated.
For your sake I, your God, became your son; I, the Lord, took the form of a slave; I, whose home is above the heavens, descended to the earth and beneath the earth. For your sake, for the sake of man, I became like a man without help, free among the dead. For the sake of you, who left a garden, I was betrayed to the Jews in a garden, and I was crucified in a garden.
See on my face the spittle I received in order to restore to you the life I once breathed into you. See there the marks of the blows I received in order to refashion your warped nature in my image. On my back see the marks of the scourging I endured to remove the burden of sin that weighs upon your back. See my hands, nailed firmly to a tree, for you who once wickedly stretched out your hand to a tree.
I slept on the cross and a sword pierced my side for you who slept in paradise and brought forth Eve from your side. My side has healed the pain in yours. My sleep will rouse you from your sleep in hell. The sword that pierced me has sheathed the sword that was turned against you.
Rise, let us leave this place. The enemy led you out of the earthly paradise. I will not restore you to that paradise, but I will enthrone you in heaven. I forbade you the tree that was only a symbol of life, but see, I who am life itself am now one with you. I appointed cherubim to guard you as slaves are guarded, but now I make them worship you as God. The throne formed by cherubim awaits you, its bearers swift and eager. The bridal chamber is adorned, the banquet is ready, the eternal dwelling places are prepared, the treasure houses of all good things lie open. The kingdom of heaven has been prepared for you from all eternity.”


Chris
“Something strange is happening—there is a great silence on earth today, a great silence and stillness. The whole earth keeps silence because the King is asleep.”

Father Paul
Do you have an impression of that Beth?

Mando
Is this when Jesus rises?

Father Paul
No. He is dead. When he dies…he goes down!
This writer is going to tell you why he is suggesting this strange thing between when He dies…and when he rises…Holy Saturday. Don’t miss this gap. It’s not just Good Friday and Easter Sunday. He is going into some corners and places people don’t normally go.

Beth
“The earth trembled and is still because God has fallen asleep in the flesh…”

Father Paul
God cannot die. Jesus in his humanity can die. God cannot die!

Beth
“…and he has raised up all who have slept ever since the world began.”

Father Paul
God has raised up all who have ever fallen asleep since the world ever began.

Beth
God has died in the flesh and hell trembles with fear.

Father Paul
This is a very strange thing going on. Does hell know what’s going on? Only God can conceive what He has done in Jesus Christ. Now the ones who have fallen asleep are waking up. Christ is going to search for our first parents. He is waking all the others

Beth
“He has gone to search for our first parent, as for a lost sheep.”

Father Paul
Is this cute or what? The Good Shepherd is going way out of His way to get the original lost sheep.

Beth
“Greatly desiring to visit those who live in darkness and in the shadow of death, he has gone to free from sorrow the captives Adam and Eve, he who is both God and the son of Eve.”

Father Paul
Can you imagine His Passion continuing? His Passion was not done. He went to look for His first parents. He approaches them carrying the cross…bearing their sins…to show them what He did for them…to hang their sins on the cross. He became sin for us…to hang their sin on the cross.

Bethany
He is showing them their salvation and how they are going to leave this place.

Father Paul
Can they get out of there any other way?

John
Now He becomes the tree of life.

Father Paul
They became happy campers. It was a very warm campfire!
Hell trembles with fear—it doesn’t say why---wait, we have an unexpected guest…we didn’t invite this one down here. No body is an expert on hell. We do know there is a place where people choose to stay apart from God, one way or another. We are getting Christ’s approach for whatever the devil has cooked up.

Kristal
Whatever…this chamber or that chamber…balcony or ringside…whatever…this guest was marching to His original mom and dad.

Bethany
St. Luke said he had to bind the strong man. This was the devils’ kingdom. He has bound the strong man. He [Christ] was invading their kingdom and taking it back.

Father Paul
Christ is going into the home turf of demons. He goes further and further into their kingdom. Now he is taking His cross and saying, “I am not done yet! I am going for seconds! What is for desert?” He has a one track heart.

Chris
Before Christ, was there heaven?

Father Paul
There was a possibility…maybe those who were faithful in another chamber. What we do get is Jesus says…”Let’s take it back to the original mom and dad.”

Mando
Hell is trembling with fear.

Father Paul
Jesus says, hold on Bub!

Bethany
The devil inspired all that hatred, and then he killed Christ and thought he got rid of Him.

Mando
A professor asked his students if they would tell others about Christ. Many said they would not. The professor asked if a gun was pointed to their heads, would they say that Christ was their savior? Many said, “No!”

Father Paul
Do we believe in God? God believes in us. He believed in our goodness. He believed in us. He did not die for an idea. He died because He believed in us. He would not give up on that belief.

Beth
When Adam and Eve sinned, he killed the animal to cover them. Even though they sinned, His mercy is a promise that they will be redeemed.

Father Paul
Christ shed his blood in anticipation.

Beth
After they sinned, they were truly repentant.

Scottie
“The Lord approached them bearing the cross, the weapon that had won him the victory. At the sight of him Adam, the first man he had created, struck his breast in terror and cried out to everyone: ‘My Lord be with you all.’”

Father Paul
Adam, the original cries out, “The Lord be with you all!” He is encouraging everyone else. He is moved passionately conveying to his children, “The Lord be with you all!” It sounds like Adam is functioning as a priest.

Nicholas
And “Christ answered him: ‘And with your spirit.’” Before we get to that, Christ makes all of us priests….chewing on that…and with your spirit could mean a few things. Was it a response, or in addition to?

Father Paul
Hold on…here we go! We don’t know who the ancient writer is. We don’t have details, but we are free to move with it. Christ comes up to Adam and Christ is speaking to Adam on behalf of the whole family. Jesus is coming back to give it to Adam. Adam takes responsibility as father and priest. Receive what has been given to you from the Lord.

Adam says, “The Lord be with you.” His human person understands, “The Lord be with you.” as much as I know who you are. Christ knows more about who they are, their spirit. He is awakening in them a deeper capacity to come in union with God. Christ is saying something deeper with “Spirit”. Heck with saving you back the way you were…you are going to be part of divinity! We aren’t just going to clean up, we are going to bring you in union with Christ.

Joe
“He took him by the hand…”


Father Paul
Taking his dad by the hand…his dad who screwed up…we have gotten to go back to our parents and share graces Christ has given us…we help them heal.

Joe
“He took him by the hand and raised him up, saying: ‘Awake, O sleeper, and rise from the dead, and Christ will give you light.’”

Nicholas
Is it meaningful that they call them “sleepers?”

Father Paul
In the Gospels, Christ would say, “They are sleeping.” They made fun of him saying a woman was sleeping who was really dead. Even Lazarus started to stink…[again, Christ says] he was “sleeping.”

Joe
“I am your God, who for your sake have become your son.”

John
Adam is humbled. One of his own has come to save him.

Father Paul
Also, one by one, more are coming into chambers. Adam is saying, “Oh, not another one…now here comes this guy carrying this cross…who is this one?”

Efrian
When they are in this hell, when Christ came they were all in this sleep. They must have looked to their dad.
He was the only one who knew him from Creation & Jesus knew that. He said this to them. He is with you. I am introducing him to you. That was the feeling I got. He is the one who had that relationship. If someone hurt your father, the kids avenge them. This child gave my life for you so that you too can enter into the graces.

Debbie & Krystal

“Out of love for you and for your descendants I now by my own authority command all who are held in bondage to come forth, all who are in darkness to be enlightened, all who are sleeping to arise. I order you, O sleeper, to awake. I did not create you to be held a prisoner in hell. Rise from the dead, for I am the life of the dead. Rise up, work of my hands, you who were created in my image. Rise, let us leave this place, for you are in me and I am in you; together we form only one person and we cannot be separated.“

Father Paul
He is doing this for all of us. He does it out of his own authority. The buck stops here…I am the buck!
No more foolin’ around. They are in hell…in darkness…sleeping. That is the one I like…sleeping.

Bob
At this point, he is emptying hell.

Efrian
Because love is how He did it. The other Ten Commandments were set by the Father. The last one was from Him; He went to hell for us.

Laura
“I did not create you to be held a prisoner in hell. Rise from the dead, for I am the life of the dead. Rise up, work of my hands…”

Father Paul
I am the original God from the old days. Down there they probably had a pretty good memory. Jesus is doing this by His own authority.

Laura
“Rise from the dead, for I am the life of the dead. Rise up, work of my hands, you who were created in my image. Rise, let us leave this place, for you are in me and I am in you.”

Kristal & Father Paul
Jesus is in Adam because He is a descendant in Adam

Sister Sheila
Jesus has given His life for us.

Father Paul
He gave His life in our place.

Laura
“Rise, let us leave this place, for you are in me and I am in you; together we form only one person and we cannot be separated.”

Father Paul
Jesus says let us leave this place together…for you are in me and I am in you.
Sounds like this is Jesus’ opinion huh? Does it sound like Jesus is going to change his opinion soon? I don’t hear him saying it is His theory. I don’t hear Him saying, “Let’s try this out as a possibility….He is not telling a story asking for subscribers.”

Sister Sheila
This is very intimate and powerful; very intimate for God to be saying this to us.

Bethany
Your maker will be your husband. We are one person; we cannot separate that. Our destiny is that mystical marriage with God. I don’t think we can put our finger on it. They are entering into the mystical marriage with God.

Laura
Together we form one person. “Rise from the dead, for I am the life of the dead. Rise up, work of my hands, you who were created in my image. Rise, let us leave this place, for you are in me and I am in you; together we form only one person and we cannot be separated.”

Father Paul
[Jesus] sounds like kind of a mad lover!


Efrian
I think it is the One Body. They are genetically the same DNA. We are One Body…One Church...this nuptial union.

Father Paul
This intimate oneness is our destiny. This is getting very real about it. [Christ said] I did not create you to be slaves. Work of my hands, you are not created for this. We are only one person. I cannot leave without you. You cannot stay without me here. There is only one here. My divine spirit is your divine spirit. This is our destiny together. I really want you to be open to this.

John D.
We become united in the light as one with Him in love and communion with Him.

Beth
Jesus is the same today, yesterday and tomorrow. I think He is doing that for us all the time. Are there others who turned away from him?

Father Paul
Why don’t we stay with the reading for now. We will come back. Let’s stay in the fullness of this, because it is the same of what Jesus is doing or calling us to do now. His longing is that our wills move with him. Let’s read what Jesus is longing to have with us.

Alex
“Out of love for you and for your descendants I now by my own authority command all who are held in bondage to come forth, all who are in darkness to be enlightened, all who are sleeping to arise. I order you, O sleeper, to awake. I did not create you to be held a prisoner in hell.”

Father Paul
Anybody get a feel of this? Christ says He didn’t create us for the little La La Land we are in.
Anyone get a feel of those little places in hell within us, or the places we are asleep? Is He over the top? Is He invading?

Sister Sheila
He has just emptied Himself with love. There is nothing left of Him. Together we form one person; we cannot be separated.

Father Paul
You’re right. I almost forgot where we came from. He’s not saying, ’Come on, we are going back to the cave.” He had done this out of love. He is coming to give divine freedom, divine union to persons who do not know how to be so free. This one who has just emptied Himself says, ‘You don’t need to know how to do this, I can do it if you lighten up and allow it. If you do, I can show you how.’

Bethany
This is big to me!

Father Paul
This is big to Christ! This is whole message of salvation. This is the whole point…for us to become in union with Christ and for him to come in union with us. This is the whole point.

Beth
I think that is why people are addicted to this kind of love. They are looking for the love.

Father Paul
That is right. The threshold of addiction has this power around it, but it doesn’t go that deep.
This is our destiny, our deepest hardware. St Augustine says this is what we are meant for. He says that our hearts are restless until they rest in Him. The Sacraments are the encounter, that divine encounter, of that reality.

Ron
The Holy Spirit comes down on you in baptism. You become one with the Holy Spirit. Christ is completing it there. The whole will is that Jesus comes down.

Father Paul
In the full conformity as to the ways of God, baptism doesn’t complete it Christian development. That was worked out by His obedience. His Human nature had to line up with divine nature. We are to line up with grace from baptism. This is the on-going work of God working us into the divine nuptial union with him. We participate.

Alex
“Out of love for you and for your descendants I now by my own authority command all who are held in bondage to come forth, all who are in darkness to be enlightened, all who are sleeping to arise. I order you, O sleeper, to awake. I did not create you to be held a prisoner in hell. Rise from the dead, for I am the life of the dead. Rise up, work of my hands, you who were created in my image. Rise, let us leave this place, for you are in me and I am in you; together we form only one person and we cannot be separated.” He tells them rise three times. He is persistent in His love. He knows their hearts. [They say] “What do you mean rise? We are dead!” He knows they keep wondering how are we going to do this. I sense He is responding to what they are saying.

Father Paul
This reminds me of the blind person when Jesus made spittle and mud. The healing took place in stages. We do have resistances, but we get part of it. Jesus understands our human nature and what it takes to move us.

Alex
“For your sake I, your God, became your son; I, the Lord, took the form of a slave; I, whose home is above the heavens, descended to the earth and beneath the earth. For your sake, for the sake of man, I became like a man without help, free among the dead.”

Sister Sheila
You might say you feel so much pain, so desperate…without help.

Laura
I take it as Him speaking what His purpose was. For our sake He was created as man. He is reaffirming to them that He is there for our sake…like a man without help…He is giving us the message of what He is here for.

Josephine
When all is lost, [he is] “a man without help.” Only in God when there is no one else are you going to find help in God. Only when you have lost your right to life, only God can help you.


Father Paul
Is it okay during the day to feel like a person without help? On the cross Jesus felt like He was abandoned. I cannot help that all through the day I am a person without any help. I feel like I can’t help people. I believe that this is an incredibly awesome measure of being like Mother Teresa who felt abandoned, like Christ in that place. By grace of a mystical community, I do not have to flee where Padre Pio stayed in that place for a long time. He was willing to stay in that place of darkness.

Robert
In our existential aloneness there is no way we can get help. Mary and Mary Magdalene would like to have helped.

Father Paul
Me continuing to stay in that place and feeling as if there is no hope…it is not a bad place.

Robert
God does it to toughen us.

Father Paul
God let’s us know He is speaking deeper. Don’t be tricked by feelings. With a lot of grace on the inside I don’t have to run to other things or other feelings. I used to try other measures. I can be in union with the greater body of the church. It takes so much grace to sustain a little bit of this action. Padre Pio would feel very angry but his guardian angel would help him to trust in Christ.

Chris
“For the sake of you, who left a garden, I was betrayed to the Jews in a garden, and I was crucified in a garden.

See on my face the spittle I received in order to restore to you the life I once breathed into you. See there the marks of the blows I received in order to refashion your warped nature in my image.”

Father Paul
He is coming with the spit on His face. He is not the Resurrected Jesus. He is coming as He was on the cross…bloody and beaten. He is not cleaned up. Makes more sense this guy showing up as he was on the cross…Adam wasn’t being dramatic…this makes much more sense.

Chris
“On my back see the marks of the scourging I endured to remove the burden of sin that weighs upon your back. See my hands, nailed firmly to a tree, for you who once wickedly stretched out your hand to a tree.”

Father Paul
Someone else [Adam and Eve] reached for the tree to get a glorious experience.

Chris
“I slept on the cross and a sword pierced my side for you who slept in paradise and brought forth Eve from your side. My side has healed the pain in yours. My sleep will rouse you from your sleep in hell. The sword that pierced me has sheathed the sword that was turned against you.”

Father Paul
What is the wound in my side? Is it my fear or when I am arrogant?

Bethany
If He is talking to Adam specifically, [Adam was to] guard the garden from something on the outside. Adam was responsible to look after his bride, Eve. Perhaps it was this heartache where “your bride fell” and Christ’s bride has been sanctified. The two verbs guard and till the garden is like the priests who were to guard the covenant. God’s command to Adam is not just [to] till and make beautiful, but guard it from the enemy. When Eve was at the tree, she had to go find Adam. Adam wasn’t doing his job. Ephesians says the Church is the Bride of Christ and sanctified by Christ. Eve came out of both sides. Adam’s bride fell from grace. Adam was wondering, What did I start? Adam wasn’t guarding the garden, and Eve was the heartache in his side. She came from his side and fell. Christ’s bride came from His side and has been sanctified.

Father Paul
For me, I want to fulfill a woman’s life, to authentically making their life right. You think you will make the family right. But in this context, who can do it? Jesus says, there isn’t that right mother, father ,child…


Rosemarie
That pain of Adam is his disobedience and compromising with going with flow of Eve. Christ went with the Father’s will to death. Generations are coming back. [Adam’s pain is] that pain of seeing them all come.

Someone recommended reading books by Scott Hahn, in particular, A Father Who Keeps His Promises . Also, the website CatholiCity.com was given as a resource for Catholic cd’s and novels.

Beth
Why can’t God get us another way? It does kind of go back to the original, to the source, the cause of the problem. It does make more sense. God is showing us the source of why he had to save us like this.

Matthew
“I slept on the cross and a sword pierced my side for you who slept in paradise and brought forth Eve from your side. My side has healed the pain in yours. My sleep will rouse you from your sleep in hell. The sword that pierced me has sheathed the sword that was turned against you.

Rise, let us leave this place. The enemy led you out of the earthly paradise. I will not restore you to that paradise, but I will enthrone you in heaven. I forbade you the tree that was only a symbol of life, but see, I who am life itself am now one with you. I appointed cherubim to guard you as slaves are guarded, but now I make them worship you as God.”

Father Paul
Ok. Somebody threw a brick through a window! How did he [the author] describe it in the beginning? Strange. This is definitely strange….would you mind reading that again? This is extreme. We want to go back to the garden. This is extreme!

Matthew re-read.
“My side has healed the pain in yours. My sleep will rouse you from your sleep in hell. The sword that pierced me has sheathed the sword that was turned against you.

Rise, let us leave this place. The enemy led you out of the earthly paradise. I will not restore you to that paradise, but I will enthrone you in heaven. I forbade you the tree that was only a symbol of life, but see, I who am life itself am now one with you. I appointed cherubim to guard you as slaves are guarded, but now I make them worship you as God.”


Father Paul
Who is going to worship you? The angels are going to be worshiping you as God! I am not just going to have you go to heaven, but worship you. Jesus is saying, “Get used to how awesome you are.” Would you be comfortable having cherubim worshiping you? If you are humble, you will take this. Humility is truth. This is who we are as One.

John
You feel like you are not worthy.

Father Paul
This is ancient Catholic teaching, hard-core Catholic. You can see why people would skip over this “strange” story.

Rosemarie
Pilot says to Him, “You are a king.” [Jesus says that ] the reason I came was to testify to the truth, to tell us this truth; to tell us who we are. The devil gets us believing this and we keep buying his tricks. He came to tell the truth that you and I are One. One person.

Father Paul
Jesus says we are one. In my nervous system lies this fabric. I don’t want to be loved that much. I am not worthy. I don’t want the truth of who I am in Christ. I would say put me back in hell. I don’t want to be healed. I would rather burn in hell because of lies I have been told than to be in heaven worshiped by cherubim. But Jesus wants us to participate in our full inheritance. This is why we and others go back to our “drugs,” of different sorts. Our wiring pulls us to return to the darkness. We have to get used to the glory of God. It is easier to take rejection than awesome pure love. We are here to remind each other of our truth. Something in us wants to recoil the story, to say it is not this way.

Nicholas
This makes me think of suffering. Jesus endured a suffering. You need to be careful-there is this suffering you don’t have to be involved in where you are separating yourself from God. You can be present with someone in their suffering. You are suffering and you want to suffer…you don’t want help…you don’t want to be weak. This is a huge step gong to therapy. If you refuse, then you don’t admit you need help. There is a balance you need. Don’t suffer just because you hate yourself. It leads to a suffering that is inevitable. There is a de-valuing of yourself that causes suffering.

Efrian
Church teaches suffering is redemptive it you join it to Christ. To suffer just because of pain, they do it just to suffer.

Father Paul
Anyone who has a longing for suffering is twisted and sick. Anyone who prayed for Padre Pio to live longer, he considered his enemies. We stay true to the love and not the suffering, per se- in itself.

Ethan
The second Sunday of Lent is The Transfiguration. As we get ready to go into Lent, we can see the glory of God so that we can see the fullness of His love. We don’t just go in to suffer.

Father Paul
All lies are snapping. They are popping. As we stay with Christ, they keep popping. Ancestors and families start to get re-created as we move into these ways of love. There is an assembly we cannot see as we move in this way of love. It is all connected.

Krystal
Mother Teresa says love starts with a smile. It starts to open you up. It changes who you are in that moment.

Bethany
I think I have known this for years that the greatest impact I can have on people is not preaching or setting a good example, but growing in intimacy in Jesus.

Father Paul
Ding! Ding! Ding! That is the whole concept right there!

Josephine
“I appointed cherubim to guard you as slaves are guarded, but now I make them worship you as God. The throne formed by cherubim awaits you, its bearers swift and eager. The bridal chamber is adorned, the banquet is ready, the eternal dwelling places are prepared, the treasure houses of all good things lie open. The kingdom of heaven has been prepared for you from all eternity.”

Beth
That is what I heard that when we receive communion the angels adore us because we have received Him.

Father Paul
Jesus takes it real deep. The angels are adoring Y O U. We always want to deflect that they are adoring Him. He says, “No, they are adoring you!”

Bethany
Aren’t we worshiped because we are divinized in Him?

Father Paul
Yes, it is His divinity. They are worshiping Christ. He has become One with His bride. Don’t keep moving it back to Christ. Get back to full focus. If you don’t, the devil will steal your inheritance! Take your inheritance. Don’t take part [of it or] you will be enslaved again. Take the whole thing. What will they trick you with…some belonging…some affirmation…what can he trick you with? There is nothing else [if you take your full inheritance!]

Beth
Is part of the torment [of hell that] you realize what you have lost or what you could have had?

Father Paul
There are parts in me that I don’t really believe what Christ is doing in me. I am in my own little hell. So, we don’t want to speculate what others are experiencing in hell. I know when others are living in this kind of love, it affects people here and there. So, I think like Bethany said, the best way to experience it is to experience that love. St. Therese, The Little Flower stopped being a hero. She let Christ start living in her and in love with her. She was forgetting about other souls and experiencing this nuptial agreement directly. For me, it is much easier to go off and do something for the Lord than to encounter this intimacy and let is set me free and express itself. [ I have to be willing to] feel helpless and let this intimacy go through me and be ok with this feeling. What makes me “feel” better is to go back to the dungeon. [That is easier than to] stay in direct action and true intimacy. It makes me feel like I need to grab someone and go get tangled up again. Then I act like a brat to tangle myself again. You can be free to stay in love virtuously, morally, and simply in the kingdom of God. It doesn’t necessarily look like anything very interesting is happening.

Closing prayer.

Peace be with you! Please join us for the next meeting.